319th Governing Body of the ILO
Interview with Luc Cortebeeck, Chair of the Workers’ Group of the ILO Governing Body
The 319th session of the ILO Governing Body recently drew to a close in Geneva. Tackled at this session were several issues concerning the economic crisis in Europe, workers’ rights and international migration. In this interview the Chair of the Workers’ Group, Luc Cortebeeck, looks at the main points covered at this session, held in Geneva on 17-31 October 2013.
ACTRAV INFO: The 319th session of the Governing Body ended on 31 October 2013. For the Workers’ Group, what were the main points to emerge?
Luc Cortebeeck: First of all, we discussed the application of international labour standards as well as the status and objective of the work of the experts’ mission following the attack by the employers during the 2012 Conference. The Employers’ Group no longer accepts the interpretation that the experts place on Convention 87, particularly as regards the right to strike. So far, no solution has been found, but the discussion is continuing. We hope that the Director-General, in consultation with the social partners and governments, will put forward a proposal for finding solutions to the problems raised concerning the experts’ role (their recognition and the objective of their work). Because if there’s no solution, that will have consequences right across the standards supervision system, which is central to the ILO.
Then, during this session, we witnessed an opening up that, in my view, is historic. An opening up to the big corporations and multinationals regarding international labour standards. The ILO mandate-holders and actors are governments, employers and workers, and the ILO’s standards are applied within countries because it is countries that can and must be monitored with regard to their legislation and implementation in practice. But what’s new is this opening up to the big firms, the multinationals who, in fact, are at work all over the world, with their own rules and labour standards. It’s vital to gain influence over these firms and multinationals. After some very difficult discussions, the ILO might be able to respond to the requests and questions put by the multinationals or their workers about applying the standards in these firms. That would be a promising step forward for the future of the ILO.
Another discussion was about the Research Institute. The present institute will evolve into a Research Department, which will centralize all the efforts in this field. A department of that kind is needed by the ILO in order to better equip ourselves for our job of protecting the workers, and also for instance when contacts are required with other institutions such as the Monetary Fund or the World Bank. The workers recognize the great value of the research conducted by the Institute for the World of Work report, but I think this research can be further improved by creating a department with more means at its disposal.
So that’s just a short round-up of some of the points that I noted during this Governing Body session. They’re elements that hold promise for the future.
ACTRAV INFO: The question of the economic crisis affecting many countries, notably in Europe, was raised at this session. How does the Workers’ Group see this issue, as regards the follow-up on the recommendations made by the ILO European Regional Meeting held in Oslo in April 2013?
Luc Cortebeeck: The ILO European Regional Meeting in Oslo took place against a backdrop of crisis, at a time when social dialogue is scarcely mentioned anymore. The European social model has always been held up as an example, but this model has lost a lot of its “qualities”. The Oslo regional meeting took place at the right moment for a discussion among the three constituents – governments, employers and workers – on the elements needed to get out of this crisis. We didn’t find the solution, but at least we all joined together in saying that “the world, and Europe in particular, must get out of the crisis by restoring confidence in employment and growth”. And the only way of doing that is to invest in the future. There has to be more investment.
It should also be remembered that, after the Second World War, social dialogue and social negotiation underpinned the rebuilding of countries in Europe. This practice should be renewed and revitalized. To revitalize the economy, we have to rebuild tripartism. And in practice, we can observe today that in Ireland, Portugal and Greece (countries that are under the “troika” of the European Commission, the European Bank and the Monetary Fund), the social partners and governments are asking the ILO for help. In Greece, the ILO now has a Liaison Officer, who is the Director-General’s representative in that country and is following the process, in order to revitalize the whole tripartite system, social inspection and the social economy, and provide other kinds of ILO technical assistance. Just about now, there’s an important meeting being held in Portugal with comparable aims. And discussions are now taking place not only with the troika, but also with the ILO, and I see that as being crucial. So the follow-up given to the Oslo discussions will be important, and we have asked to be informed about it at the next sessions of the Governing Body.
ACTRAV INFO: Concerning respect for international labour standards, three complaints about the situation in Guatemala, Bahrain and Fiji were examined during this Governing Body session. How do you assess these cases, particularly as regards protecting workers’ rights in these three countries?
Luc Cortebeeck: In fact, the discussion that disappointed me most during this session was the one we had on Bahrain. After all, it’s quite clear that certain groups of workers were, and are, being discriminated against. I wouldn’t say the government has done nothing at all, but many firms did dismiss workers, even if they were subsequently reinstated thanks to action taken by the ILO. But there is still a climate of discrimination against workers in that country. We regretted that all the governments of the Arab countries, of Asia, immediately and uncritically supported the government of Bahrain, avoiding a decision that the case was receivable. Even though the government refused at the last moment to sign a quality agreement negotiated with the workers, the employers and the labour minister. It is clear that in March 2014, at the next Governing Body session, the case of Bahrain will be re-examined. We hope that in the meantime, the government will revisit its decision, sign the agreement and start to implement it. For the Workers’ Group, the aim is to find a solution to the serious problems raised. The complaint lodged under Article 26 is a means to that end, not an end in itself.
That also goes for Fiji, a country that doesn’t recognize either the trade unions or social dialogue. All demonstrations are banned there. This case will also be taken up again next March, but the Governing Body did rule that this case is receivable, and that’s a step forward.
The case of Guatemala had already been declared receivable. In March, we signed an agreement between the government and the workers, with a memorandum of understanding, containing some very concrete points. A tripartite mission, in which I took part, went there, and we noted some progress, but also some points that have not been dealt with at all. I found that some ministers, particularly the Minister of Employment and Labour, are making every possible effort to move things forward. The political will really is there in certain sections of the State, but not all of them. Investigations have been launched into the cases of murdered workers, but there haven’t been any real results so far. The Guatemalan State has not adapted either the constitution or the legislation to meet the ILO’s requirements. The mission had asked the government to draw up a time-limited roadmap, and this was actually done after discussions between the unions and the government. That’s positive! Of course, we’re going to keep an eye on how this roadmap is implemented. Together with the Guatemalan unions, we also told the government of Guatemala that there are still problems with the labour inspectorate, which is inadequate, and with the lack of sanctions available to the inspectors, leaving the firms free to continue violating workers’ rights with impunity.
ACTRAV INFO: The issue of international migration was discussed at this session. How do you think the ILO could help to prevent tragedies like the one in Lampedusa – tragedies that mainly hit workers?
Luc Cortebeeck: I think these tragedies show us that, all over the world and particularly in Europe, there are problems linked to international migration, for various reasons.
First of all, there are political and economic causes in certain countries where people don’t have sufficient resources to live, or don’t have the same rights as other people. Then there are technical and demographic elements that explain this international migration by workers.
According to estimates, there are about 232 million migrants across the world, and this figure is still rising. What needs to be done, I think, is to work with the employment and labour ministers of all countries in order to find solutions, as the UN did just a few weeks ago. Because some countries do need migration, so the question is how to reconcile the demand for labour with migrant workers’ fundamental rights. Also, many migrants work in precarious conditions – undeclared, informally - and they aren’t recognized. They don’t have the same rights as other workers.
So yes, there has to be labour market measures, but also steps to protect labour rights. And on this, the countries of Europe, the entire Europe, have to find solutions together with the UN. It isn't at all easy, but that's the framework within which these solutions have to be found. In addition, this can't be done without the social partners, who have their part to play in this debate.
Luc Cortebeeck: First of all, we discussed the application of international labour standards as well as the status and objective of the work of the experts’ mission following the attack by the employers during the 2012 Conference. The Employers’ Group no longer accepts the interpretation that the experts place on Convention 87, particularly as regards the right to strike. So far, no solution has been found, but the discussion is continuing. We hope that the Director-General, in consultation with the social partners and governments, will put forward a proposal for finding solutions to the problems raised concerning the experts’ role (their recognition and the objective of their work). Because if there’s no solution, that will have consequences right across the standards supervision system, which is central to the ILO.
Then, during this session, we witnessed an opening up that, in my view, is historic. An opening up to the big corporations and multinationals regarding international labour standards. The ILO mandate-holders and actors are governments, employers and workers, and the ILO’s standards are applied within countries because it is countries that can and must be monitored with regard to their legislation and implementation in practice. But what’s new is this opening up to the big firms, the multinationals who, in fact, are at work all over the world, with their own rules and labour standards. It’s vital to gain influence over these firms and multinationals. After some very difficult discussions, the ILO might be able to respond to the requests and questions put by the multinationals or their workers about applying the standards in these firms. That would be a promising step forward for the future of the ILO.
Another discussion was about the Research Institute. The present institute will evolve into a Research Department, which will centralize all the efforts in this field. A department of that kind is needed by the ILO in order to better equip ourselves for our job of protecting the workers, and also for instance when contacts are required with other institutions such as the Monetary Fund or the World Bank. The workers recognize the great value of the research conducted by the Institute for the World of Work report, but I think this research can be further improved by creating a department with more means at its disposal.
So that’s just a short round-up of some of the points that I noted during this Governing Body session. They’re elements that hold promise for the future.
ACTRAV INFO: The question of the economic crisis affecting many countries, notably in Europe, was raised at this session. How does the Workers’ Group see this issue, as regards the follow-up on the recommendations made by the ILO European Regional Meeting held in Oslo in April 2013?
Luc Cortebeeck: The ILO European Regional Meeting in Oslo took place against a backdrop of crisis, at a time when social dialogue is scarcely mentioned anymore. The European social model has always been held up as an example, but this model has lost a lot of its “qualities”. The Oslo regional meeting took place at the right moment for a discussion among the three constituents – governments, employers and workers – on the elements needed to get out of this crisis. We didn’t find the solution, but at least we all joined together in saying that “the world, and Europe in particular, must get out of the crisis by restoring confidence in employment and growth”. And the only way of doing that is to invest in the future. There has to be more investment.
It should also be remembered that, after the Second World War, social dialogue and social negotiation underpinned the rebuilding of countries in Europe. This practice should be renewed and revitalized. To revitalize the economy, we have to rebuild tripartism. And in practice, we can observe today that in Ireland, Portugal and Greece (countries that are under the “troika” of the European Commission, the European Bank and the Monetary Fund), the social partners and governments are asking the ILO for help. In Greece, the ILO now has a Liaison Officer, who is the Director-General’s representative in that country and is following the process, in order to revitalize the whole tripartite system, social inspection and the social economy, and provide other kinds of ILO technical assistance. Just about now, there’s an important meeting being held in Portugal with comparable aims. And discussions are now taking place not only with the troika, but also with the ILO, and I see that as being crucial. So the follow-up given to the Oslo discussions will be important, and we have asked to be informed about it at the next sessions of the Governing Body.
ACTRAV INFO: Concerning respect for international labour standards, three complaints about the situation in Guatemala, Bahrain and Fiji were examined during this Governing Body session. How do you assess these cases, particularly as regards protecting workers’ rights in these three countries?
Luc Cortebeeck: In fact, the discussion that disappointed me most during this session was the one we had on Bahrain. After all, it’s quite clear that certain groups of workers were, and are, being discriminated against. I wouldn’t say the government has done nothing at all, but many firms did dismiss workers, even if they were subsequently reinstated thanks to action taken by the ILO. But there is still a climate of discrimination against workers in that country. We regretted that all the governments of the Arab countries, of Asia, immediately and uncritically supported the government of Bahrain, avoiding a decision that the case was receivable. Even though the government refused at the last moment to sign a quality agreement negotiated with the workers, the employers and the labour minister. It is clear that in March 2014, at the next Governing Body session, the case of Bahrain will be re-examined. We hope that in the meantime, the government will revisit its decision, sign the agreement and start to implement it. For the Workers’ Group, the aim is to find a solution to the serious problems raised. The complaint lodged under Article 26 is a means to that end, not an end in itself.
That also goes for Fiji, a country that doesn’t recognize either the trade unions or social dialogue. All demonstrations are banned there. This case will also be taken up again next March, but the Governing Body did rule that this case is receivable, and that’s a step forward.
The case of Guatemala had already been declared receivable. In March, we signed an agreement between the government and the workers, with a memorandum of understanding, containing some very concrete points. A tripartite mission, in which I took part, went there, and we noted some progress, but also some points that have not been dealt with at all. I found that some ministers, particularly the Minister of Employment and Labour, are making every possible effort to move things forward. The political will really is there in certain sections of the State, but not all of them. Investigations have been launched into the cases of murdered workers, but there haven’t been any real results so far. The Guatemalan State has not adapted either the constitution or the legislation to meet the ILO’s requirements. The mission had asked the government to draw up a time-limited roadmap, and this was actually done after discussions between the unions and the government. That’s positive! Of course, we’re going to keep an eye on how this roadmap is implemented. Together with the Guatemalan unions, we also told the government of Guatemala that there are still problems with the labour inspectorate, which is inadequate, and with the lack of sanctions available to the inspectors, leaving the firms free to continue violating workers’ rights with impunity.
ACTRAV INFO: The issue of international migration was discussed at this session. How do you think the ILO could help to prevent tragedies like the one in Lampedusa – tragedies that mainly hit workers?
Luc Cortebeeck: I think these tragedies show us that, all over the world and particularly in Europe, there are problems linked to international migration, for various reasons.
First of all, there are political and economic causes in certain countries where people don’t have sufficient resources to live, or don’t have the same rights as other people. Then there are technical and demographic elements that explain this international migration by workers.
According to estimates, there are about 232 million migrants across the world, and this figure is still rising. What needs to be done, I think, is to work with the employment and labour ministers of all countries in order to find solutions, as the UN did just a few weeks ago. Because some countries do need migration, so the question is how to reconcile the demand for labour with migrant workers’ fundamental rights. Also, many migrants work in precarious conditions – undeclared, informally - and they aren’t recognized. They don’t have the same rights as other workers.
So yes, there has to be labour market measures, but also steps to protect labour rights. And on this, the countries of Europe, the entire Europe, have to find solutions together with the UN. It isn't at all easy, but that's the framework within which these solutions have to be found. In addition, this can't be done without the social partners, who have their part to play in this debate.